General Griefing (The Legal 2x1 and ABUSE)

This is not the first time this exact scenario (from other people) has happened and I let it go in the past.

With this becoming a common trend in Arcadia its obvious that this is a problem.

People are abusing multiple areas of our town. Throughout the day, nearly everyday, and several times a day multiple people will use our spawn as a hub to attack our town. They grief 2x1's all through the building to get out so they can then go to our homes and knock 2x1's all through those to access who knows what. They knock holes in windows/fences/gates //// you name it to access VIP gate signs which are designed to prevent this exact problem.......... designed wrong.

My home was griefed while I was online, but I was in the mining world. All the the damage below came within a 2-4 hour window and most of it (except for 1) is 2x1 griefing. The one is more than 2x1 by the basement door. There were a total of over 10 broken blocks in my home - and all of which was for nothing. This is not the first time this has happened. This almost happens to our town spawn on a regular basis.

So, as an assistant of Arcadia one of my responsibilities is to go around patching up these 2x1's. With the lack of other PVP towns this makes Arcadia an obvious target to hit (rightfully so!). The large amount of individual players coming through Arcadia punching 2x1's in our town is getting out of hand. I spend mutiple hours a day just fixing 2x1's and 1x1 towers to jump over our walls.

So What do I suggest? I want it so that mods/admins can issue warning to town/town players that organize group raids going into towns and doing multiple 2x1 holes in limited areas. Multiple warnings = ban from town or server... whatever.

It would be the same as I I take 5 arcadians on a raid - can we all go to DF and then go to 1 house and all 2x1 damage it to get inside (none of us do it twice) just to ... what? See my locked chests? I would never do this - and even though its "Legal" I would not permit town members to do this either.

Its in that gray area you talked about and its becoming frustrating. It doesnt feel like pvp to me.

Heres my swiss cheese home.













No, I dont want anyone banned. No, I dont want it fixed or roll'd back. Just like this to be heard and see the response.

Edit: I just replaced 6 blocks at spawn, 2 fence, 1 plank
I just replaced 13 blocks in my home
All done in ~2-4 hours

and please excuse josh . He was merely observing what I was being told while explaining my situation to the mod.

 

as i said, the 3 different people that i had evidence from them breaking in at different locations broke in hours apart... were not there all at once.

i do agree that it is ridiculous, but what do you want us to do? demand that a person circle your house to see if anyone else has broken in? while i was there i saw three entrance points not within site of each other, and two walls busted up inside... three entrance points for different people. then while inside it appears the first person to break in (haha-vroom) broke into your vault, and then the third person to break in (champcar) broke the wall past the vault, into the room with those flowers.

while i do feel bad for you, i don't know what we can do in this situation, warnings only go so far, banning for a person breaking in seem ridiculous. if i warn them all for excessive break in, and then they dont check another house and break in after someone else broke in, then i would need to ban them, or the warnings have no merit...

the thing that does make me worried is the response i got when i was trying to talk to you and explain this. both you and your town mate disregarded what i was trying to explain right away. the threats to go and do the same to another town, with a group of people concerns me... the three people that broke into your house were not even all from the same town if i am thinking clear... Haha is Exile and Champ is DF... yet you threatened right away to go and put holes everywhere into the houses in DF... it was not just one town that broke in.

so in conclusion, i do feel for you, but what do you really want us to do about it? i warn, then they break into another house within the rules after someone else had, then i have to ban them. if i ban them, then a few good players are removed because of poor timing... i do nothing and it happens again, you get really mad (which i honestly understand) and possibly quit... i dont want any of those to happen... but i am not able to see a appropriate response for this situation... maybe another admin can...

 

Dont patronize me pyro.

You didnt explain or try to explain anything. You gave me a 1 liner pretty much and said that it was from multiple people (I dont care, it doesnt make it right) and then, as I was explaining the situation in a reasonable way you told me to shush. Then again. Then, when I did you told me to shutup .. again.

Pull the chat log for all I care, I said nothing out of line - and I said nothing regarding you in my first post and this is just a response to you claiming your professionalism. Ya.

I cant be responsible what others were saying at that time, and pull the chat. I told them all in town chat to stop IMMEDIATELY after they did. And they did.

I never threatened to do that to DF either. I wouldnt do that - even if it was done to me because that still doesnt make it right. I was giving you a hypothetical to prove the gray area in the rule.

Ya, I want towns/pvp and damage on in towns. It gives another purpose for the rupies and buying land. I want a town, that PVP players can live in - to kill other PVP players that live in that town. Not roll in and destroy their sh*t in small fasion. I want to build defensive structures to fortify a PVP town on the PVP side to keep OUT players that want to harm our residents.

I feel like this is the whole point? If they are just allowed to use our free spawn (while it costs me 15 to use mining HA) to repeatedly attack us day in and day out..... then we would build a trap for players using the spawn.

Yesteraday I was heard we would be banned if we set a trap for players constantly spawning and wrecking our town.

How do i defend against this or should i just bend over?

Lastly I guess I could just protect the land with my VIP status right? Or maybe I should use that 35x35 or whatever for our town spawn.......... That would prevent 90% of the attacks from even getting out of our TS. Right? I looked for the info regarding how to set up requesting the protection and I cant seem to locate it guys.

 

i will ban towns for making their town spawns death traps, DF has been warned Ellex has been put on the warned list by myself for that,
i told you it was done by multiple people and you went off, i tried to continue to explain to you, but it appeared you wanted none of it, and when your town mates questions the validity of a mod, that is when i told you all to shush, and none of you did, so i told you to shush again, and then left because you and your town had no intention of listening

if you dont want to listen, thats your problem, i dont have to fight you. i will leave, you can complain and moan, i will post the response i wanted to tell you in game here. and once again you disrespect. obviously you want to work with me huh?

 

I logged because you told me to stop talking 3 times in like 3 seconds. I concluded that the situation had deteriorated and my points needed to be expressed here.Before you starting explaining you also said take it to the forums. Logging was nothing personal.

Also now this sounds like a bitch/rant instead of a problem. My problem was not with you pyro. My problem is the understanding of the server rules - and now I feel like I have a stronger grasp on them and I know how to better fortify our town.

Concluding response was "Deal with it" and deal with it I shall.

If you cant beat em, join em. I hope my words are not mis-interpreted. I love this server, this was just a bruise on my day.

 

I know I have no business here, but I do find it interesting that in the fifth picture Joshtruex calls Pyro an asshole.

 

Can I suggest we turn on all permissions for outsiders except for destroy?

1. This will make town spawns safe, All you would need is to lock the door
2. Town raids would still be possible, as you can build over walls, open doors, turn on/off switches
3. players can still be safe in locked rooms or buildings if overwhelmed
4. no more 2x1 holes, the most would be a ladder or staircase on a town wall, or over a fence, which could be removed easier than filling holes
5. PVP would be a lot funner if people still needed to walk to attack

I know we have tried all permissions off and that didn't work, it seems, with the constant abuse of the 2x1 rule, that having destroy permission may not be the most suitable path.

These rules need to be ever changing to find the right balance, even servers that have been around for ages probably still have the same issues and problems, as the issues and problems change over time.

 

I would support this, the only problem being the fact that almost everyone has locked doors. Find a possible way to get around that and I'll support it.

 

I believe that manglors post is at the least an idea in a forward direction.

With others recognizing this will be a continuing problem - if we can get this moving im sure we can all find common ground on what works for everyone. The way it is now can not be the best way.

 

Fight back. :3 I, for one, won't whine if you 2x1 my home because there's nothing in it for stealing.

 

Ya as we where raided all day today town actually doubled its money from people warping in.

I will set up a post tomorrow and see what people think

 

Disclaimer #1: I know very little (read: nothing) about towny permissions.
Disclaimer #2: I have yet to get involved in pvp myself, but would like to, at some point.

If the level of detail exists in towny permissions to set exactly what people who do not belong to the town can or cannot do, I would suggest the following:

• Outsiders can do anything but destroy blocks.
• Doors and chests cannot be protection-locked in pvp towns. (I don't know if worldguard, or whatever the chest/door protection mod is, has this level of configurability, where protections cannot be set in a given section of the map.)
• If the level of detail exists to be able to set it up, perhaps allow a small number of chests to be protected on the pvp side, but not doors. (This way, you can at least have a small amount of secure storage, but it's up to you to protect the rest.)

This makes it a challenge for the attackers to figure out how to get into someone's house, as well as a challenge for the residents, to come up with creative ways to keep people out.

As it stands right now, there's no point whatsoever of using any kind of creative trickery (of the redstone or any other variety), since people can simply dig a 2x1 hole and go right around it all. And as it stands, tunneling has to be allowed because otherwise anyone with a protection-locked door is completely invulnerable. But if you cannot break blocks, and you also know that the other guy cannot lock his doors with protection, then you know you can get in. You just have to figure out how. It's your wits against theirs.

Also, since we now have the rule that you must belong to a pvp town in order to pvp, I would also suggest that anyone belonging to a pvp town should not be allowed to warp to the town spawn of another pvp town. (Again, I don't know if that level of configurability exists.) If this is able to be implemented, it would need to be accompanied by a rule that pvp towns cannot simply build solid walls to level 128, to make it that the warp to their spawn is the only way in.

Figured I'd throw my 2 cents in.

~Fin

 

No-destroy means it's not too hard to make a town pretty much perfectly secure. Build walls + ceiling, add redstone combination-lock to get out of spawn, and attackers have very few options.

Not sure if that's what you want or not.

 

Options would be:

• Trial and error, or
• Espionage (much more fun)

But knowing that there are unlocked chests within that town makes it worth the effort. Right now, I can't honestly understand why people even bother to tunnel into another pvp town, since all you're really banking on is that somebody was brainpower-impaired enough to actually leave a chest unprotected.

The way I look at it is, you either have a lot of break-ins, for very little or no gain, or very few break-ins, for some decent loot. *shrug*

 

Maybe there is a way to set the door protections to have a chance to unlock or be hacked, something like that would be fair, but the way it is now even having a door on your house is useless, let alone one locked. This would have to all be dependent that you can modify the protections that way of course.

Could try making it a rule not to have door protections on PVP side, still keeping chest protections, but allowing outsiders to open doors around other towns would help with people being too protected.

Either way I think permissions should be changed to outsiders destroy- off; outsiders build - on; outsiders switches - on; outsiders item - on

People will still find a way to exploit this set up, as I'm writing this I see a few ways, but this would be ten times better then the current permissions.

 

I think that /t spawn to other PVP towns should be disabled unless you are in the town.
This would encourage people to walk and because it takes longer to walk, raids will not be as often so there will be less griefing.
Plus this will also stop people from trapping their town spawn so less rules will be broken.

I also think that the people who make 1 block pillars should be warned or notified because the last time I checked, it was a rule.
"- Do not build 1 x 1 x 128 tall towers" "Do not try to create grey areas with-in the rules"

 

i keep hearing of people building 1x1 towers to get into towns... but they have either always been torn down by the person that made them, or the town that was raided... so i never see them and know who did it... i dont doubt people build the 1x1 towers, i agree those people should get a single warning and then a removal if they refuse to work within the rules...