Pie's Ban Appeal

Discussion in 'Ban Appeals' started by PieSquared761, Dec 21, 2014.

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  1. PieSquared761

    PieSquared761 Well-Known Member VIP

    What is your IGN? PieSquared761
    Who banned you?(use @<full username>) ezeiger92
    Why were you banned(ban message)? Abusing Mob farm to get McMMO levels
    When were you banned? December 21st, 2014 4:48 PST
    How long is your ban? 7 days
    Can you explain what you know about the ban in more detail? Pretty sure eze just hates mob farms in general, not quite sure why. Hating me + mob farms = ban. McMMO is an excuse, I don't care about McMMO, remove my swords levels if you want to. (One hell of a run-on)
    Why should you be unbanned? Quite a few reasons:
    Not illegal in general:

    Hostile Mob Farms

    • All types of farms except auto zombie pigmen and auto iron golems are allowed as long as they do not cause lag.
      • This means that if you want to farm pigmen or iron golems you need to kill them in a "fair fight", that being they can attack you as well.
    And before you cite this:
    Don’t exploit
    • Don't abuse bugs, alt accounts, exploit obviously broken mechanics, or take advantage of situations where plugins fail allowing you to do something you shouldn’t normally be able to do.
    It isn't a bug, it isn't an alt account (which tons of people have and publicly acknowledge), it isn't an obviously broken mechanic, it isn't a plugin fail, and it's something everyone should normally be able to do.
     
    Beocca likes this.
  2. PieSquared761

    PieSquared761 Well-Known Member VIP

    In addition, eze plans to ban mob farms in general. Why? Because he says it causes the staff too much trouble. I'd like to know what trouble, so I could at least understand what eze's is saying.
     
  3. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

    I do hate mob farms, and you are most of the reason I hate them. Initially, I was one of the staff members pushing to have them allowed on the server, but the continuous flood of items your massive farm generated was just ludicrous. Every time I turned around, you were doing something with your farm that was either lagging chunks of the server into the ground or creating creative ammounts of items. I completely oppose 'play' styles that encourage users to AFK for hours at a time. As a result of all of this, I do hate mob farms.

    Even if I believed you were not trying to get McMMO sword levels (I don't), using a mob farm to power-level screws over players trying to get their skill up legitimately. The fact that an admin can reset your levels is completely beside the point, because had you not mentioned in chat that you passed me, I would not have noticed. You would have been a marker for players to try to catch up to, and they never would make it. That just isn't fair.

    The only reasons that mob farms continued to be allowed after CyberVic revamped McMMO were:
    1. The drops and xp were easy enough to get already
    2. The farms did not give McMMO experience
    If players can make farms that break the second condition, then we need to rethink allowing mob farms on the server. McMMO experience from mob farms is a massive bug, an obviously broken mechanic, and definitely a plugin failure.

    If we continue to allow mob farms when they have the technical ability to give McMMO experience, distinguishing the players who used legal farms from the players who used illegal (experience) farms would be near impossible. On their own, mob farms annoy me. With the ability to completely unbalance one of our plugins, with the admins nearly powerless to stop it, mob farms are an absolute nightmare to deal with.
     
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  4. PieSquared761

    PieSquared761 Well-Known Member VIP

    Items that I keep in chests, that I do not use, and that I do not sell.
    Eze, you aren't making any sense. You're saying that players can't pass me... but admins can reset my levels. And if I did care about McMMO levels and if I did believe I was doing it on purpose, why on earth would I tell you? If the concern is that I'm a marker players can't beat, that problem is solved by removing my levels? How can you say removing the levels is irrelevant when they are the source of the problem? Not to mention it's fair because they can make their own spawners too.

    Okay here's the deal. This is how I view Minecraft. You very likely think differently. You start out as a hunter-gatherer, eating whatever and mining whatever. At some point you build a home. You make that home better and better by adding wheat farms and sugar cane farms. At some point, you automate those. You automate and improve everything in your base, because it's fun. What's the use of tens of thousands of sugarcane? Nothing, but it's nice to have. Same is true for mob drops.

    As for the McMMO aspect of the spawners, I don't know what to tell you. I don't care about the levels nearly as much as you do. I don't understand why removing the levels whenever you feel like it isn't an option, because that "mark to pass" wouldn't exist.

    Also, it'd be nice if you could unban me, seeing as I didn't do anything illegal. We will, of course, continue this debate (if you want to). In the meantime, I'll be making a Christmas tree, if you would allow me to.
     
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  5. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

    You missed the important part of what I said in your first quote.
    The amount of items annoys me. My real problem is with the lag chunks you had caused and the promotion of being AFK on the server.

    You must either be willfully ignorant or you did not read my post. Resetting your levels is beside the point. McMMO has failed in some regard if it grants experience from mob farms. We do not have the ability to quickly distinguish between legal and illegal mob farms, and there is absolutely no way to check offline. Anyone who uses an illegal farm to boost their skill just a little bit will never be caught, but they get an advantage over the players killing mobs in the wild or in a dungeon. That is just not fair.

    There are two reasons I banned you:
    First, setting an example, because *if* we continue to allow mob farms without the ability to prevent experience farms, we have to make the risk/reward balance of breaking this rule very severe. If players think the risk of a short ban is worth getting McMMO experience, then we did not make the punishment large enough.

    Second, this is not the first time you have abused the way servers, plugins, rules, or MineCraft in general, work. You have an extremely long history of pushing the boundaries for what we will tolerate on the server, and every single time you claim to have done nothing wrong. I am getting very tired of this nonsense, because you make more work for the staff to deal with, and I, personally, am already far too busy.
     
    Flagellum likes this.
  6. PieSquared761

    PieSquared761 Well-Known Member VIP

    And I turned it off. When the lag was gone, I turned it back on.
    It wasn't illegal at the time of me using it. I shouldn't be banned for a breaking a rule you literally added 2 hours ago. Again, if I was seriously trying to grind McMMO levels, then why would I tell you?


    Again, it wasn't illegal at the time of me doing this. I know the rules. I've been here for a very, very long time. If something's illegal, I won't and don't do it. And even though I see no problem with mob farms, I'll stop using it.

    I'm just trying to get unbanned for something that wasn't illegal. I'll shut down the spawner if it bothers you that much.
     
    Beocca likes this.
  7. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

    You were caught breaking a rule after a long history of pushing the grayest of gray areas. You don't understand why I have such a huge problem with what you did, even though I've clearly explained exactly why you have a ban. I'm absolutely sick of this back-and-forth dance of "I didn't do X!" "Yes you did!", and it has become apparent that it will not stop as long as you play on this server.

    In a joint decision with THEdeadRETURNED, we have decided to upgrade your ban to permanent. Do not bother trying to appeal this for at least a year, at which point you will most likely be denied anyway.

    Thread locked.
     
  8. CyberVic

    CyberVic Well-Known Member VIP

    I had made this announcement in front of others in Teamspeak and in our Shoutbox which I'm sure Pie saw (days ago). For those who did not, I'm posting a similar statement here.

    So, for the sake of public clarity, ongoing discussions are being had concerning the permanent ban status. We may or may not revoke the permanent ban. We may or may not extend the temp ban if the permanent ban is revoked. At the very least, the 1 week ban WILL stand, that is NOT be reversed at this point so there is no point arguing it.

    Note that the final decision of what we do with her ban are based upon her past (both positive and negative) on the server, the specific events that lead up to this, the level of abuse, and may or may not result in any rules changes. Personally I don't think there needs to be any rules changes because what she did she knew was out of bounds, regardless of feigned ignorance (again based upon past discussions WE'VE had with her). People do not have all the facts in this case. If you'd like to discuss them one on one with me, I'd be happy to via Teamspeak or Skype.

    As I see this, as objectively as possible the rules that she broke (knowingly) a basic rule of the server. I can say with confidence she knew what she was doing based upon previous attempts to exploit and abuse spawners in the past and code we've had to implement to stop her from abusing them in the past. Also based on weeks of discussions we had with her in the past of why we felt her behavior was considered abuse. At the very last, she's deserved the ban she got based other other similar bans for similar kinds of actions and her lack of respect for staff decisions.
    A final decision on the exact terms and length of her ban will be decided before her 1 week ban period is over. Till then any further threads on this topic will be locked by moderators.

    This may raise greater concerns and discussions about spawners, their effect on the economy, and systems people enjoy / balance they want upon the server. Ultimately we do build the server for the playerbase, but we also need to build for a server balance that we feel is attractive to new players as well. I'd welcome an open discussion on this OUTSIDE the context of an individual's abuse. Also, preferably after the holidays.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014
    SkittlesQueen likes this.
  9. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

    The ban has been returned to a week. I am no longer part of it, don't ask me about it.
     
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