Permanent Nether Discussion (1.16)

Discussion in 'Survival Server Suggestions' started by ezeiger92, Aug 31, 2020.

  1. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

    Discord is a bad platform for discussion, I don't know why I keep trying to use it that way.

    The nether! Some people want travel hubs, others want to build homes in the new biomes, and a few of you just want to give me a migraine. There are some options here:

    1. Do nothing

    Leave it as is, tough luck​

    2. Only a permanent world

    Remove the mining nether and apply the same build rules as the overworld
    • World size
    • Finite netherrite and other resources
    • Only "builds" are mob farms
    • Nether portal linkage
    3. Separate nethers
    A mining nether and overworld nether
    • Player confusion
    • Every problem from #2
  2. waterpower1

    waterpower1 Active Member

    I'm in favour of option #3.

    Not sure why "Finite netherrite and other resources" is an issue here (isn't this what a mining nether is for?).
    Also not sure what "Only 'builds' are mob farms" is intended to mean. The nether is great for building a hub between overworld houses.
    I also can't imagine it adding much more player confusion to the current mining vs overworld setup; I see it making things more intuitive if nothing else (mining nether is for mining, overworld nether is for building).

    Will the extra map likely cause any hardware problems or the like? If not, the other problem I see is that some people won't like having their homes easily accessible (if the portals are linked up); wouldn't have thought this would apply to many people though.

    I'm also in favour of option #2 if an admin shop is set up to sell the rare nether stuff.
  3. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

    Think of the endless branch mines for diamonds in the overworld, but worse. That's the issue with "finite resources" in #3

    "Only builds" are mob farms means exactly that. The last time we tried to make a permanent nether, 2 or 3 people built anything at all other than mob farms

    Setting up an admin shop creates an infinite supply and forces the value to be in a specific range.
    The shifting price admin shops are meant to simulate price changes by supply and demand, but are only able to pull that off for low value, always obtainable items, otherwise the price skyrockets without end and never goes back down.
  4. waterpower1

    waterpower1 Active Member

    I don't personally see why mine-shafts at around y=12 is a problem. Surely they're mostly out of sight?

    I can't comment much on the last permanent nether, didn't even know we ever had one. Was it during a time of inactivity or not heavily advertised? If the conditions from back then were significantly different, it may be worthwhile to give it another try. We have quite a few people atm and I've heard a few comment on plans to build things in the nether.

    The extra biomes and portal mechanics seem pretty great to me. We've even reset before over the issue of having new biomes.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  5. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

    Out of sight? Not to a new player that settles down in an "unclaimed" area only to find miles of branch mines below their house.

    People were well aware the previous attempt existed, and we have only slightly more players now with a recent uptick. We only added the world because a bunch of people said they would build in it, which did not happen.

    Resetting a build map to have new terrain for people to build in is not the same as spinning up a new map.
  6. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

  7. waterpower1

    waterpower1 Active Member

    I don't see why mineshafts are a problem. They're not an eyesore on the landscape, which is the only significant problem I can see.

    Having had a permanent nether not being used before is a problem, although I feel the new biomes provide enough of a change for a new trial to be had. The main argument for removing it previously was that it caused confusion, which doesn't seem like much of a problem to me.
  8. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

    You underestimate people wanting to build in fresh terrain, and that includes being about to get diamonds in their area.

    I said it would cause confusion in the past, and was told that it was fine, but in the end it did cause confusion

    So I decided to clip out the nether conversation from that thread and I forgot how goddamn big that thread was. Having just clipped out the nether stuff, it's still a complete wall of text. Anyway...

    Learning from past mistakes, if there are multiple worlds with nether terrain, there needs to be a way to distinguish between them.
  9. waterpower1

    waterpower1 Active Member

    All the listed problems just seem small in comparison to the benefits, to me. We seem to disagree on how much of an issue they are, but surely not to the extent that "naming confusion"+"mineshaft at y=12"+"world storage issues"+"linked portals wasn't very popular previously">"more biomes"+"linked portals now"

    That perm nether discussion suggests that there was both a pvp and pve nether at the time? That would help to explain why the nether wasn't especially popular back then (if there was three of them?).

    The way the current nether set up is confusing, as he argued. If a new player entered into the nether in the overworld then reentered the portal, he'd come out into the mining world. That is confusing. I'd argue many more players were and will be affected by this confusion than by any naming confusion for two different nethers.
  10. ezeiger92

    ezeiger92 Well-Known Member Lead Admin Survival Admin

    With the 2015 map, we had a single world that was half pvp, half pve. There were only two nether maps, and there was ample confusion.

    You take my issues as a difference of opinion, and it's frustrating, because I raised the same problems before and eventually said "fine fine, we'll try it your way" and it turned out I was right. These are things that need mitigation, if your only argument is "well that doesn't really matter" then I'll just ignore you.